Changing a career to tech without a tech degree can be unthinkable for some people. Most people studied something at a college/university. Then they did it as a career. Tech has been tearing down this old-school thinking and opening up to people without tech degrees.
Is it good or is it bad?
Do you really need a tech degree to succeed as a QA Software Tester?
Today, I am interviewing Jana Vesela, a QA Lead at SinnerSchrader in the Czech Republic. Jana does not have a degree in computer science but worked her way up to a QA Lead and mentor anyways. Since she regularly hires QA Engineers/Software Testers she can answer my questions.
Hello Jana, thank you for accepting my interview! I believe that it will help a lot of people to understand the in and outs of getting a Software Tester/QA Engineer job. As I saw in your LinkedIn, you don’t have a tech background.
Was it hard for you to become a QA Engineer/Software Tester?
Can you please describe your journey for us?
Well, I moved to a big city after high school and I started studying at a university long-distance while working. I’ve got a job as a receptionist in a real estate company. After a month they asked me to choose between work and the university. Without any financial support from my family, I had to choose work.
I’ve done a lot of receptionist jobs and at one point I found myself in an IT company. I made a lot of friends among developers. One day a friend approached me that (for some unknown reason) he applied for a job as a QA. They turned him down for being too skilled. He told me that he recommended me.
I had two weeks to learn something about being a tester before I went to the interview. It took two hours but I’ve landed that job.
Have you ever felt disadvantaged at your job because you did not have a degree in computer science?
I had never felt disadvantaged because of the degree. And thinking back I don’t remember anybody else being disadvantaged because of it either. It was always more about experience and skills rather than degree. I also remember the time when people with degrees but no experience were actually disadvantaged. People without degrees but with valuable experience had a better chance. I actually see the logic behind it. To really value a degree, at least here, in this country, the school system would have to be different with more hands-on experience and modern technology.
Now you work as a QA Lead so I suppose you are participating in hiring new QA talents. Do you feel that it is hard to find good quality QA Engineers/Software Testers in the Czech Republic? And if so, why?
Yes, it is. Very.
I participated in a lot of interviews and sometimes I remember being really desperate. It also depends pretty much on which company you are hiring for :D. It is always easier to hire for a company with a good reputation and culture.
The hard thing about it is that testing and quality assurance is seen as an easy and short-term occupation. People are not afraid to tell you that into your face. They are not afraid to tell you that they don’t know what they want or that they just want to try it. Those things are definitely not sexy for the hiring manager.
But what I see as the toughest is the fact that skills are pretty easy to find or learn comparing to personality and motivation. Those are the most needed but most difficult to find.
What kind of personality are you looking for in a QA Engineer/Software Tester usually? What personality types make a good QA Engineer/Software Tester in your opinion?
I’ve always valued and respected those who have Petr Ludwig’s growth mindset. They are not afraid to fail, they don’t give up, they fight. Even though it means they can fight with me sometimes. They are trying their best in different ways possible, they search for a solution instead of shrugging that it is not doable.
This kind of intrinsic motivation is a key.
Also, the never-ending cliche with QA versus developers. This should not exist anymore – we should be one team working together towards the same goal, not to fight together and blaming each other. To see a friendly attitude towards developers is a welcomed treat as well.
And then of course the classical – they want to learn and grow, they know what they want to achieve and it warms my heart when they know that QA is a very broad craft.
Do you have a good experience with QA Engineers/Software Tester applicants with non-technical background?
For example, I believe that my broader background allows me to look at the product more holistically as a QA (from UX, legal, and business perspective to name a few).
In your opinion, are there any pros and cons to having a more versatile work experience when applying for a QA position?
I hired more people without the tech background than with it. Unintentionally.
But it depends on the meaning of it.
Are we talking about juniors without experience and tech background or are we talking about experienced people without a degree? I don’t have a problem hiring an entry-level junior – trainee if I have the opportunity for him/her.
But I would like to be clear on couple things : I hate when companies are hiring trainees or juniors and sell them to other companies to work as intermediates. The work is hard for them and the result is sh***y. I witnessed a lot of those cases, unfortunately.
Difference between Software Tester and QA
I see a difference between tester and QA. Trainee is not a QA, he/she is a tester.
In the past, we called people without any experience juniors. Today, juniors are mostly people with 1-2 years of experience. And it is logical. The technology is growing, IT is changing, with machine learning and AI we have more challenging tasks, and so on.
Back to the question – I myself am gaining a lot of ideas or inspiration from things outside work. So I believe that people with different backgrounds or interests in general which are not IT related can bring something new and interesting to the table.
Every new QA needs to be humble enough and learn the basics of the testing craft before starting something advanced. I would be rich if I’d get a coin every time a junior told me that he/she wants to do test automation.
Coding tests are one thing. The other, and maybe even more important, is the knowledge of what to automate and how. It includes setting up the process, analyzing what makes sense, knowing how to test the features, coding effective reusable tests, choosing the right methodology to achieve a good test coverage, etc.
Without knowing these fundamental things you’ll have a long path ahead and if someone would have to overtake your work, he/she would probably scratch it and do it again.
So be humble and learn first things you are supposed to learn before jumping to an advanced level. It’s like with bugs – if you don’t fix them early, they’ll cost you.
I’m doing the same whenever I am supposed to do something new. I study.
The saddest thing I saw was a candidate with 4 years of experience who had no fundamentals and just absorbed the things as they went. Like developers we have “the right habits, rules to go by” and he knew nothing of them. After 4 years he was basically still a junior because I couldn’t delegate him any advanced work :/.
Is there a big difference in technical skills between QA Engineer/Software Tester with technical and non-technical background?
I would say so. The people with technical backgrounds certainly do have the knowledge of the fundamentals I mentioned above. It is also visible every time they are supposed to work alone and set up everything from scratch.
So, it is very important to know what kind of work to assign to whom. Very strong mentoring for people with no tech background is very important as well.
Is there a way to recognize whether a person without a tech background will have a hard time to learn technical skills? Could you check that in the interview?
I don’t think that there is a difference between technical and non-technical people in this question. Someone who wants to join IT world has an interest in it.
We check whether the candidate is able to learn on his own and how often. What motivates him/her and what was the last thing he/she learnt. I believe it is quite obvious from the candidate’s attitude and answers if he/she wants to grow or not.
We don’t hire people without such attitude at all.
Do you feel like having a testing certification helps to become a successful QA Engineer/Software Tester when not having a tech background? If so which one?
No. It is not about the certification, it is about the skills and knowledge you gain when preparing for such certification. And that’s what I would recommend (and did myself in the past). Study the materials and books recommended for the certification. Take that curse or gain knowledge in another form.
However I am aware that for some companies and businesses it can open the doors. In that case, certification can be helpful and certainly more focused and beneficial than actual school.
What is the one thing (if there is one) that the QA Engineer/Software Tester candidate should not mention in the interview?
For example, I heard that some candidates said that they just wanted to try testing or they wanted to do testing only to become developers etc.
Would that make an influence how you decide about such a candidate?
I don’t mind when QA people move to different fields. I encourage that. We need more people in different roles than QA but still having QA knowledge.
What I really don’t appreciate is “I heard that testing is the start level in IT.”
The starting level is helpdesk, not testing and quality assurance. For example, user tests that require people without skills are a start level. I still believe that software quality is a craft and a broad topic. I’ve been in QA for over 7 years. Does it mean I’m on the entry-level of IT? No. Am I just clicking and reporting silly bugs? No.
Of course, it is natural to think this way. A lot of testing academies and companies are willing to accept people without skills. It is good but as I said above, companies need to mentor these juniors.
But saying that in an interview? Come on! You are supposed to captivate us as much as we are supposed to captivate you! With this sentence I know I am going to waste my time here.
Is there anything else you would like to add that could help prospective QA candidates without a tech background when looking for a software testing job?
Every field of work is broad and can be easy as well as complicated when you dig deeper. Respect that, be humble and learn. You certainly don’t know everything after a year of experience 😉
Thank you so much for making time to answer these questions. I believe that your input will help a lot of people!!!
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